Hey everybody, so today, I’ve got a really cool interview with Angela Langlock. She’s a trademark and business attorney, and she has grown her entire practice using social media, and she’s got a really cool strategy that she uses, and I want to share it with everybody. So, check out this interview.
If you have any questions answer it in the or ask, do you have any questions answer them, no, if you have any questions, go ahead ask them in the comments below. She’s got some really good insights on, you know, some of the things that are holding a lot of attorneys back from getting started with social media, and I think if you watch her interview, you’re going to see that social media doesn’t have to be as complicated as everyone wants to make it seem today. And really, the only thing holding you back is yourself. So, watch this interview, get inspired to take control of your law firm and your marketing and, you know, hopefully, this will get you going on social media, thanks.
So, what’s going on with lawyers? You were saying earlier that there’s some interesting things happening with lawyers.
Yeah. So, I’m Angela Langlock, I’m a trademark and business law attorney, and I’ve been using social media to build my law practice, and I think one of the perceived reasons why lawyers aren’t doing social media marketing, excuse me, is because they are afraid of the bar, right? Because oh is it advertising? Do I have to comply with the advertising rules? And actually, if you look at most of the advertising rules, this isn’t considered attorney advertising. Like, I have the right to get on and talk about the law, right? I don’t have to ask anybody’s permission to talk about the law, and I think too that attorneys are worried that they’re going to be perceived as less professional, blah, blah, blah but, you know, Andrew I got a secret for you, the less professional we seem, the more we can relate to people, right? Because part of the issue is that we’re really intimidating to people like, we have all this knowledge and, you know, it’s like we’re god or something. I mean I’m joking about being god of course, but it’s like people think that we have all this knowledge, and we do but we’re just people too, right? And I just want to connect with people, and I think social media is the best way to do that and I’ve been using video to do that really successfully, and I love it, and I’m having a lot of fun.
Yeah, I mean it goes into character flaws, you know, nobody, you know, here’s the thing. Nobody’s perfect, and nobody likes a perfect person either, you know, like that is the biggest coffee mug I think I’ve ever seen.
Oh my gosh, you know what I call this? I call this my big ass mug.
Yeah, it is, it is.
It’s like almost as big as my head, check it out.
Yeah, it’s huge, and I think for me, I drink a lot of coffee so that’d be convenient but.
Well, this is tea actually, I don’t know if you can see, it’s actually tea because if I drink this much coffee.
I would be so wired I wouldn’t be even be able to think.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but that’s interesting now because you’re right there’s the whole, everybody wants to appear to be perfect, and then the reality is just people relate to people that have the same problems that they do. I have a like, for example, a perfect example, I have a DUI attorney who, I’ve got a client, who’s a DUI attorney and that of DUI. She’s also a family law attorney, and she’s been a, or she’s been involved with domestic violence things. So, she would, at first, she was kind of like, I kind of need to keep all this out, I was like, no you need to embrace that. You need to say, I was a DUI, I know what you’re going through as a DUI attorney because I’ve made mistakes in college and I’ve got a DUI also. You know, and different things like that and just because you’re a good DUI doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. You know, good people make bad decisions, make mistakes but it’s the same thing with the videos, you know, people obsess, sometimes people obsess with the quality in their video and the quality of their content and it’s analysis paralysis basically, they worry so much about it that nothing is done, you know, and I’m sure you deal with that too where you just have to kind of let it go sometimes and just know that it’s not going to be perfect.
Yeah, actually I embraced the fact like, I never worried about making it perfect.
Ever, ever, ever and I think part of the reason for that is because I’m used to doing things that make me uncomfortable like, I don’t know if this has anything to do with it. So, I spend a lot of my time studying different languages, right? And in order to be a good speaker of a language after practice, right? And I just got really comfortable with the idea of where I’m trying to go that I was going to make all kinds of mistakes, right? I was going to make all kinds of mistakes, and if people didn’t like it it’s okay, I was still going to talk to them and if they wanted to laugh and make fun of me, they could, but I didn’t care. Because the most important thing to me was to communicate, right?
And so, for me the most important thing that I do on social media is I communicate. And I show up, I, you know, say what I know, I say my opinion or whatever and people like it, right? And if people want to make fun of me, guess what? I don’t care.
Yeah, exactly. Haters are usually jealous of that I found.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, if I have haters, I haven’t had any haters yet. I haven’t had people troll me yet. If they do, you know what I’m going to say? Hurrah, I’m important enough to have haters.
Exactly, well you know, while you’re doing that, you know, if another attorney’s going to, you know, give you crap about her or whatever but you know, they’re not putting on that content out there, so they can, while you’re, while they’re hating on you you’re taking their clients, you know.
I don’t even care, right?
What do you do? So, you use like, social media, is social media your primary method to market your legal services?
Yeah, it is. And you know why? Because no one else is doing it.
Exactly, exactly, it’s a completely wide-open market.
Yeah, while all the attorneys are out there paying for advertising, I’m doing it for free on social media.
Yeah, so tell me what do you do? Well, what’s like, what’s your daily, what’s your social media routine?
Okay, so, I’m still working on pushing out content to places like LinkedIn and twitter and, you know, Instagram because I have a system that does but right now the cron on my blog isn’t working correctly. So, the RSS feed isn’t pushing out stuff like it’s supposed to, but that’s all like minor, right? So, what I do is I go live on Facebook every day, and I talk about trademark law, right? So, that’s my primary area of practice, trademark and business law and people seem to be really into the whole trademark thing, and there’s a whole bunch of fun stuff that I get to talk about. So, what I do is I go live every day on Facebook, every weekday, okay? I went to see a movie on weekends. I go live every weekday on Facebook, and I talk about trademark law, and you might think, well, what do you talk about every day. Well, heck, I get inspiration everywhere but what I do is I repurpose that live video as contents. So, that live video and the description that goes along with it, the description becomes a blog post, and the video becomes part of the blog post, right? And I can push all of that out to Twitter. I can push it out to LinkedIn, I can push it out to my LinkedIn business page, I can push it out to Instagram, I can push it out to, did I already say twitter? Anyway, the key is to repurpose all of your content and when you do that then, you know, it just becomes really easy to produce content. I mean, yeah, you’re not going to be tweeting every like, you know, three hours, I don’t know, the twitter gods like it when you tweet out a bunch of stuff. You know, like every three hours or something, I’m not doing that. It’s just too much.
Yeah, yeah, it is.
But I am producing content every day, right? So, I’m producing content every weekday, and it goes out to people, and my Facebook lives are watched, some of them literally hundreds of times. People share them, people ask me questions, it’s really fun to do the content because I like video, video likes me. So, it’s something that I have been having a lot of fun with and it’s had a great impact on my law practice.
Let me ask you when you first started, was it easy and was it, did you get results right away? Or did it take a little bit time to build and how was experience like in the beginning?
Don’t hate but I got clients the first week.
Okay, you’re rare.
Because like, I know in my experience it took me about two months before I really, before things really started snowballing, so.
Yeah, I mean, I expect that more and more people will, you know, find me because I’m producing live video every day and, you know, Facebook loves live video.
Yeah, live is good.
Yeah and I’ve had people tell me that they searched for trademark attorney on Facebook and found me, right? So, it’s a way for people to find you.
You know what else is great? And you touched on this before where basically you’re repurposing all your content. You’re creating one piece of content, and you’re syndicating it everywhere, but every time you could create a piece of content on every platform that’s one more opportunity that somebody can find you. So, if they’re going to be setting, you know, if you publish it to Instagram or then you publish it to YouTube or somewhere and they do some sort of obscure search, and then they get brought into your world because they find a video that you did about. Some random trademark law that nobody would have ever thought of, nobody else created a content on but now you’re talking about so many different things that you’re just, you’ve got all these hooks in the line, you can just catch all this fish, you know. Now, let me ask you this, how do you find people? How you get people to follow you? How do people find out about you? Does it just happen naturally or what do you do?
Well, I’ve been an online marketer for about years so, I have a lot of, a lot of like, followers of my personal page in Facebook land and then I’ll also tell people listen, if you want me to answer your questions about trademark law then you need to like my trademark after page, like my business page so that you’ll be notified when I go live and you need to comment on my video and ask question, right? So, if you want to ask me a question, that’s how to do it, right? And so, I’m getting some engagement on my videos, not as much as I would like but, you know, people are starting to engage with my videos, and they’re watching my videos more importantly. So, I forgot the question, Andy.
It was kind of how do you build in your following because obviously if you go live you’re going to see people that are following you but how do you get like, what do you use in to get your name out there?
I get a lot of referral marketing, referrals, so.
From your lives?
That and from people who know me. So, I get tagged in a lot of questions on threads. So, you know, people know me from that.
Right. So, is that a result of people you know in the real world or people that you’ve come in contact with on Facebook?
Both, both. I mean mostly I mean, like everybody else most of my Facebook friends have never actually met in real life. I know, that’s super weird but you know, that’s how it is these days.
Yeah, now, you use a personal page, right? Because I know you have a trademark doctor page, then you also have a personal page. Do you go live at the same time on both pages or do you?
You can’t do that it’s like against the terms of service but yeah. I could do that, but I also have a tool that pushes out the pre-recorded video as a live, right?
I’m complying with the terms of service because I’m saying in the description that some, it’s a pre-recorded. So, everybody knows it’s pre-recorded, but not really.
Which one is more, what do you find is more it gets better results, the live on your personal page or the live on your fan page?
Well, I get a lot more, I have like, you know, 2,000 friends and 2,000 followers on my personal profile. So, I get a lot more engagement on the personal profile.
But, I tell people if you want to ask me questions you have to do it on the trademark after page. So, I’m trying to generate more engagement on the trademark after page, my business page.
Got it. Okay, so, how long you’ve been an attorney?
Oh, dear lord, I’m dating myself. I have been an attorney 19 years.
19 years, okay and obviously Facebook live wasn’t around 15 years ago. What did you do before that and how did you get into social media?
Well, I got into social media when I divorced my husband, we had a law practice together, and our area of expertise was the firearms industry, and we basically built that by going to trade shows, right? So, at one point, I was filing 40% of the applications that got filed in class 13 and class 13 is basically firearms, and other things that blow up. So, I was, we built that practice just, you know, going to trade shows and, you know, talking to people in the firearms industry. It was an enthusiasm of [indecipherable 00:13:52] so, yeah, don’t hate please. It’s politically incorrect, I don’t care, what else? Yeah, so that’s how we build that practice, I mean, zero percent of that was social media.
And when I divorced I gave him the law practice, this was 2012, and social media was like kind of starting to become a thing for businesses. I mean I kind of wish I had realized and started earlier but, you know, whatever here I am now, right?
Yeah, don’t we all?
Yeah, I know, I know, and I wish I had bought Bitcoin then too, but that’s another story. Yeah, so I, you know, it took me a while to find my way, you know, it just happens when you get divorced, your whole world is like turned upside down and, you know, I really enjoyed being a trademark in business law attorney and so, you know, that’s what I kept doing. I also kind of started a media company and dabbled in some other stuff but, you know, whatever but, you know, teaching is what I really loved to do. So, I get the opportunity to teach every day on a Facebook live, right?
And people like me. I mean, you know, it helps to be attractive. So, but even if you’re not attractive, people will still watch you if you are engaging, right?
And people wouldn’t watch me if I produced boring talk, if I was like, yes, in today’s episode we’re going to discuss blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, if I did that nobody would watch me. So, I mean, you have to put out content that’s interesting, and you have to be engaging, and you have to talk about stuff that matters to people, right?
Yeah, and, you know, the other thing that’s interesting is you don’t pitch, don’t sell things.
No, I sell absolutely nothing.
Yeah, exactly and that’s the same thing for me.
If you want to know about trademark law, go to trademarkdoctor.net.
Yeah, you know what the trick is? I offer to answer questions, I offer like a strategy session, you know, if you’ve got a lot of, if you got some IP that you need help with you may follow all of the strategy session, and I’ll point you in the right direction, that’s really your consultation but it’s not intimidating and it’s offering value, you know, and that’s the secret I think and I think you’ll probably agree with me is that the secret is that no matter what you do you cannot go wrong if you provide value, you know.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
That’s what I think a lot of attorneys don’t understand is they try to make everything perfect. They try, they worry about the lighting, they worry about all this kind of stuff, provide value that’s all you need to do, and the nice thing is that like, you said, there’s no competition. So, I’m sure you don’t want, you know, I’m sure that this is horrible for business attorneys, but for other attorneys, it’s awesome, you know, like. So, what would you say to attorneys that are kind of on the fence about doing this, you know, and I tell them all the time you need to do it.
For god’s sake, just start doing Facebook lives. I mean look, yes, it does take time to do them, but I mean I can’t really show you this setup that I have in here now. I have a desk lamp, okay? This is one of my lights, okay? Like you think it’s all fancy and I do have an umbrella lamp, oops sorry, we’re clanking around here, sorry about that and I do have a, here, I’ll show you my microphone, a Yeti Blue Microphone on a boom, right? So, if it bothers you to have all this stuff in your desk, you can put it somewhere else but.
You know what? We were talking before, that’s a great camera also.
Oh yeah, this, heck, you can produce all kinds of content with this, I actually have, hold on, I actually got this little doohickey, this is a tripod/selfie-stick, right? So, you can put your thumb on this little holder.
And it will hold your phone, and you can use the camera.
Yeah, I have one like that too, I love it, it’s awesome.
People try to complicate this stuff, but it’s really not complicated and, you know, the most important thing is the good sound because people will put up with a lot of stuff, they will put up with bad lighting, they will not put up with bad sound.
So, I mean, I say, listen just get a USB microphone like not one of those that, I mean you can get one that plugs into your phone, fine, if you’re going to use your phone as a camera.
Level your mic clips on your lapel. They’re like 20 bucks on Amazon.
Exactly, not even.
This Yeti Blue that I got is I think $20. No, I’m sorry, sorry, sorry scratch that, it’s like $80 at Amazon, okay?
So, it’s super cheap. If you can only afford, you know, one thing, good sound.
And as far as the lighting.
That or you know what? Or go in a quiet place because as long as, you know, you don’t, you can get away even with the onboard. Like I just use the onboard, I don’t even have a microphone for my iPhone, but I make sure it’s quiet, so you can hear me, you know, so.
Yeah, you’d be surprised at how much background noise these pick up.
Oh, you have an android, maybe the iPhone but no, you’re, I mean, $10 get a lab mic, you know.
Its 10 bucks and you might have a problem running the law firm in any way.
Yeah, yeah but I mean, most of, most of what stops attorneys is just excuse making, right? Like oh, I’m not comfortable on camera. Well, guess what? The more you do it, the more comfortable you become. Like, I didn’t wake up one morning and say, hey, I think I’m going to be comfortable on camera.
No, you get comfortable on camera because you just do it every day and like every, anything that you do every day, like the first time you’re in a courtroom, attorneys were you comfortable? Heck no, you felt super awkward, you didn’t know what to do, and eventually, you found your way, right?
So, you just kept doing it. Well, this isn’t any different, right? It’s not any different, and if you don’t like the first few videos that you produce, you can delete them later, just redo them, right?
It won’t cost you anything. It’s not like, you know, and that’s the thing. If you bring in a film crew and you pay people to film you you’ve got to pay every single time and the first ones are going to suck, and it’s not a little bit sustainable, you’re not going to hire a film crew to come to your office every day, you know.
And I’ve coached attorneys on video. I got to tell you attorneys suck on video, kind of everybody sucks on video, right?
And they’ll do these weird things like, you know, we’re trying to crump the scene, and they’re like, pulling faces, rolling their eyes at themselves. I was like, just stop, you know, just pretend like I’m your grandma and talk to me. You know, the camera is a camera, it’s not a gun. Nobody’s going to die if you look bad on video.
I like that, I’m going to use that.
Yeah, it’s not a gun. No one’s going to die, maybe you look bad, who cares, right?
You know, what else is interesting is that what I found, now, you’re unique and that you got clients right away. The first 20 videos you do are going to suck. There’s no way around it, it’s going to suck but the good news is is that nobody’s probably going to see them anyway.
You know, so it’s kind of like while you’re building your following, while you’re building your group up, you’re getting all the jitters out, and there’s very few things in life that you do over and over and over again that you actually get worse at, you know. So, it’s like, you just get better, it’s just natural. I’m horrible on camera, and I just keep going. I’ve actually gotten better but, you know, I say, umm, I stutter, I repeat, I lose half of my videos I forget what I was talking about in the middle of the video, you know.
Oh, I’ve done that. I mean I did it on our interview. I was like, wait, what was the question again?
Yeah, exactly, you know, it’s just. Yeah, it’s, you know, it’s just getting it done. People have analysis paralysis, they just think about it over and over and over again and while you’re thinking other people are doing it.
And they’re getting all the clients, you know.
Yeah, and nobody cares that you’re saying, umm, I say, umm. I mean I don’t say as much as I used to, but I say, umm, I stutter, I stammer over my words, it’s just.
And let me ask you this, when you go back, when you’re recording a video because I do this and tell me if you do this. It’s always, so it’s always worse in my head when I go back, when I go back and watch it, it’s not nearly as bad as it was when I was recording, and I was thinking about it.
Do you know what I’m talking about? Does that happen for you?
I don’t typically spend a lot of time being self-conscious about what I do in camera, but when I go back and look at it, I’m like, damn, I’m good.
I mean like, exactly, that’s kind of what I mean, like, I’ll go through and I’m not really self-conscious about it because I’m not going to redo it, but basically I’ll be like, oh I thought I was stuttering a lot or I think I missed a point or I didn’t really emphasize a point well enough and I’ll go back and kind of take a look at a couple of spots. I’m like, oh no, this is fine, I don’t know what I was thinking because like, when I’m doing I’m thinking about it then also thinking oh man, they’re, it’s just, you just get self-conscious and you get in your own head and then once you kind of step back you realize that you know, really you’re not as bad as you think you are, you know, and it’s, and honestly the other day it doesn’t matter, you know. If it’s out there, if you’re putting high, again, value, if you put value out there it doesn’t matter if you say umm, you know, that’s what matters.
And it also doesn’t matter if you make mistakes, right? Like the other day, I was recording a video. When I watched it afterwards I realized that I said, copyright infringement instead of trademark infringement but it kind of was copyright infringement too. So, I was like, okay, well, whatever, who cares. And I’m not going to go back and fix it because I don’t care and if somebody wants to say, Angela was wrong, she said copyright when she meant trademark. I’m like, and so?
Yeah, exactly, you’re not a robot you’re a person and.
Yeah, I’m a person and I.
I’ll put myself out too like, oh I don’t know, like, I just lost my train of thought, what was I talking about?
Yeah, what was I saying again? But people do that in real life, right?
Yes exactly, you know, I do it all the time.
And the whole point of these videos Andrew is to communicate and make it look like, which is true, you’re a real person, right? And I don’t think people are as intimated at the thought of hiring me as an attorney after seeing me in video, right?
Yeah, if you want specific attorneys out there Stephy or like, Ambulance Chasers or different things like that and they’re just people at the law school.
Yeah, that we’re just people that went to law school.
Yeah, a couple of my friends from when I was in college are attorneys now and I see them being attorneys, oh my god, I remember them from college.
Years of questionable things happening in college and now they’re representing people in the court of law, so.
Yeah, I mean, I just, I want people to. So, the videos do a lot of things for me. So, it’s said people do business with those they know, like and trust, right?
So, to me, there is no better medium than video for the know, like and trust factor, right?
I want people to know me. I want them to know that I’m an attorney, I want them to know that I can solve particular legal problems for them like, maybe they won’t like me, and it’s okay, because if they don’t like me, then we shouldn’t be working together. So, I’m fine if they don’t like me but if they do, you know, watch what I’m doing and like me, great. Trust, do they trust me? Do they know? Do they trust that I know what I’m talking about? Well, it’s obvious when you get me on camera, and I’m just like, you know, this stream of consciousness about trademark law comes out. It’s obvious that I know what I’m talking about, right? So, there’s no better medium for attorneys to communicate, to build rapport with potential clients, to exclude those who wouldn’t be good clients, okay? Because if you’re not, if you don’t like my vibe then that’s totally okay, there’s another attorney out there that you’re going to like, you don’t have to like me, right?
You don’t have to like me. I’m going to put myself up there anyway because I want to attract the clients that like me and want to work with me.
You’re right, yeah. No, that’s absolutely right because yeah, if you are yourself and you don’t put up a front, you know, like you were saying there was some choice of words that you’ll use sometimes.
If somebody has a problem with that then you probably don’t want to work with them anyway, you know.
Right, it’s okay, right?
It’s a great way to eliminate people which makes your life easier. Now, you’re working with clients that you like that aren’t going to be a huge pain in the ass the entire time which, you know, that’s half the battle for me is just making sure that my clients aren’t pain in the ass because most of my clients, I mean, I like all my clients, you know, and I have been able to do that by eliminating the ones that I don’t like and, you know. So, but like you were saying the trust, that’s a huge thing, trust is almost even more than if they like you, I mean like you is very important but if they trust that you’re the person that, you’re on the authority on trademarks then maybe you’ll put, maybe they don’t like your language but they’ll still, they know you’re the person to handle it for them, you know, and I always say like, you know, comedians, I always compare to comedians. A lot of times attorneys will create these videos talking about how, oh, if you need a trademark I’m the best, I’ve been, blah, blah, blah, I’m the best trademark attorney, but it’s like comedians. Comedians don’t go up there and like Jerry Seinfeld doesn’t tell you how funny he is. He proves he’s funny by going on stage and being funny. You prove you know about trademarks by talking non-stop, everything about trademarks, tell, you know, the ins and outs, the nuances of the intellectual property laws and all that kind of stuff and when someone does that you don’t have to get on there and say, hi, I’m Angela, and you should hire me because I’m good at trademarks, you know, you don’t have to do that when they know that, you know.
Yeah and if you, go ahead I’m sorry to interrupt.
Oh no, as I was saying, I mean, that’s what I try, that’s the biggest point that I’m trying to tell people is that it just, you’re the authority and if somebody watches 10 of your videos about trademarks why are they going to call another attorney about a trademark? You’re the one they trust, you know, because they just watched all of your contents. You’re the only option, you know, like, it’s so easy, you know, it’s just getting over yourself and doing it, you know.
Yeah, getting over yourself and getting over yourself sometimes is the hard part for attorneys.
Yeah, there’s a lot of credibility with the video. I mean, we are trained to believe things that we see on the screen, right? We were trained practically from birth because people are so used to watching television that we accord that a high degree of credibility, right? And you can tell, you know, you can read people’s body language, you can tell a lot about them and their personality by watching them on camera, you know, how well do I think that, you know, they know their stuff, whatever. You know, people, I don’t have to people that I know what I’m talking about. Either they believe that I know what I’m talking about or they don’t and if they don’t, I’m not going to try to convince them.
Right, you got to prove it.
Well, I do prove it. I do prove it every day when I’m on Facebook live.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Alright, so, let’s start wrapping up here. I got a quick, I got two more questions for you, and then I’ll let you go. I need to, I got to do a lot today but what would you, what piece of advice today would you, okay, so, if you were starting over and say starting social media over again, what piece of advice would you give yourself from today from back? What would you give, what would be one piece of advice you would give yourself?
Start now, don’t wait, you know, and because here’s the thing. As an attorney, you have the opportunity now to, you know, get it on the ground floor as they say. There are so few attorneys using social media effectively, especially video because attorneys are like completely freaked out to get up and do video. If you’re doing a video and if you’re engaging and if you know what you’re talking about it is a great medium to communicate with your potential clients. So, I would say, start now, start sooner, right? Right now.
I think that my favorite quote for this particular thing is, a year from today you’ll have wished you started today.
Exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah.
Stop thinking about it and just do it.
It’s not as bad as you think it’s going to be. Like, you think you’re going to look awkward on camera and maybe well who cares, you know, but you’ll get better at it over time, just like you got better at everything, you got better at riding a bike and practicing more often. Sorry?
In the beginning, there’s a good chance that nobody’s going to see it anyway.
Exactly, no one’s going to be watching your stuff.
Exactly, you don’t like it, you delete it, and it’s just your little secret, so. Alright, well, listen, Angela, I really appreciate, I really appreciate you taking the time, what’s your Facebook page so people can check out what you’re doing and follow, just kind of follow your journey and see you use social media effectively?
Sure, sure, so my Facebook business page is TrademarkDoctor.net forward, I’m sorry, facebook.com/trademarkdoctor, all one word. You can find me online at TrademarkDoctor.net. You can probably find me on other social media channels as well, but it’s all going to be the same content because like I said, I’m repurposing everything.
Cool, alright awesome. Well, hey, thank you so much, it was great talking to you.
Yeah, likewise, it’s been fun, Andy.